144595-the-change-to-primary-stats-was-well-intentioned-and-in-some-ways-good-but-misses-the-mark
Content ---- ---- ---- At least that yellow fluffy hair is working and doesn't get people stuck in an eternal loading screen. I'm one of those that panic every time Carbine adds something new because I know they are going to break something. Everytime. Without fail. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Before there were Insight, Brutality, Tech, Moxie, Grit, and Finesse and what most of these stats did varied depending on your class. If you played a single character or class this wasn't a big deal. At most you just needed to know which stats were DPS and which were for Tanking/Healing. If you played alts, you had to memorize what each stat did for each class for each role and then you also need to keep track of what secondary stats you needed. I won't like, I liked the flair that came with those old stats but...what did they even MEAN? Can you definitively tell me what each of those stats would have provided in a way that everyone would agree upon? If those stats have definitive purposes then why did they do different things for different classes? It's sad to see the unique element of it go but you won't find me complaining about the system being made simpler and more direct. | |} ---- Let me offer another perspective: Before f2p, I had three stats, armor, deflect crit and health. Now, I have three stats (crit mitigation, armor and health), just with no freedom at all in the rune system. That's massive progress! | |} ---- the POINT is that secondary stats did different things for each class (in our case, tank) so it was hard to find a perfect good fitting item + the devs had to create more items and balance the items and.... you get my point. it was a cluster*cupcake* and the designing of new items for raids had the same problem. and you cant deny that it was confusing for new players. other games dont have brutality etc, so while i and you and alot of other players didnt care others did. thats why they changed it. "i have 2k ap? cool. but whats the brutality thing ah it gives me ap? why are there items with attack power i thought bruta = ap. whats better? why does moxie give me crit and crit strength, whats better? what do i rune now? - ok i figured it all out for my warrior, but why is everything different for the engineer? both wear heavy armor and both can wear the same things except weapons" <- very confusing for casuals. Just because we play(ed) the game alot and therefore understand what each primary and secondary stat did it does not mean it was a good system. | |} ---- ---- ---- Core stats in the old system did different things for different classes. The stats now consistently do one thing for all classes. Surprisingly it is easier to learn that "X does Y" instead of "X does Y for Z but A for B" and so on. | |} ---- Totally agree. The old stat system, to put it lightly, was a gigantic dumpster fire of total nonsense and stupidity. The new stat system less so, but, Carbine just can't let something be simple and elegant can they. No, we have to add complexity to it because reasons! HERE! have 43 sub stats that all do very slightly different things oh and they have caps. | |} ---- ---- ---- Sorry to break it to you but there's still a "best way" to do it. It's just that now the stats have different names and there's a whole bunch of new secondary stats you need to consider, each with their own caps - things like Multi-Hit, Vigor, Intensity etc. Yes the effects of these new stats are at least now consistent across all classes, but different classes have more use for certain secondary stats than others, even in the same roles. For example, one dps class might get more out of Multi-Hit than another. Do you know what secondary stats your class requires and what the caps are? Bet you can't find this out from any in-game documentation, so you'll need to rely on third-party information like Enigma or still have a guildy walk you through it. Assuming they aren't as confused about it all as everyone else. I just watched a video guide to runecrafting and the guy doing the tutorial even admitted he was confused. Progress eh? | |} ---- ---- I don't think Xiun presumed there was no longer a "best way" to do it? There might be more secondary stats, sure, but with all of the stats having a defined use and cap it's just something you have to familiarize yourself with once and after that get a grasp on the priorities for a class. It's easier to keep a system straight in your own head when each value you need to know does one thing for all it applies to rather than having varied values and uses across multiple areas. Also I...I don't get why runecrafting would be complicated? Does it get more complex than "Go to rune station, select rune type, hit craft"? If it does then I guess I can see where it would throw people. That's not me being sassy I genuinely haven't dabbled with stuff beyond mid-level in Wildstar yet. | |} ---- If only it was as simple as "go to rune station, select rune type, hit craft". Come back and re-evaluate that assessment once you've runed for the Elder game. General sets ("What is Cynosure?"), Class Sets, Fusion Runes with special affects tied to gear slot, slot-rerolling and so on. But don't just take my word for it, have a look here and here and see how simple it all is. | |} ---- At a glance that looks complicated but it does nothing to explain why it's complicated. My understanding is that rune sets have to be slotted into a specific piece of gear which means having something with the right number and right type of slots, then following with the right runes from the correct set. You've given me a lot of information to look at and while it IS a large amount of information it doesn't tell me why runecrafting would be complex. Is it just runes in general that are complex? I'm really not seeing anything other than 'There is a lot of information I have to process for endgame' which is the kind of thing you literally have to do for any game ever. If anything it's simpler than what WoW used to have because WoW used to need you to put the right number of the right type of gems in your sockets, add sockets if it was possible, enchant gear, use items to provide the right enchantment effects if you have the right crafting profession, and use the right glyphs to modify your abilities correctly. By comparison getting the right slots for the right runes to put in your gear seems really simple by comparison. I really don't mean to dismiss any concerns here, it just kind of feels a lot less complicated than what I've lived through in games. | |} ---- How was this different under the old system? If anything you now have more freedom to differentiate from other stalkers, since most of your stats come from runes now and can be whatever you want, instead of it being mostly in the gear and forcing you to take what was given. Except that multi-hits can crit while crits can't multi-hit, there is no deflect multi-hit or multi-hit mitigation, and there are no multi-hit severity runes (just set bonuses). Even without all of that, it adds another degree of freedom to the combat equation. Minimums and maximums can still be solved for, but it isn't as simple as it used to be. | |} ---- ---- Hope you have deep pockets then (either plats or service tokens) to re-roll your slots to get the ones your need. Anyway, you'll get there soon enough. It will be interesting to see if you still feel it's straightforward when you do. | |} ---- Money sink does not equate to complication though? Expensive is a good point, I've heard people bring it up, I've seen Carbine staff say that they're going to be reducing costs and making it so that runes can be removed for gold instead of just service tokens. How does expending in-game currency make it complex? | |} ---- I... know? There was a best way before the change, and a best way after it. People saying that there's "less flexability" just seems false. You can swap stats aroudn however you want, but now the stats actually make sense instead of this odd "well moxie is crap for me, but it's great for an x class... even though we both want to stack crit??" Caps and whatnot I have never seen built-in to game interfaces (unless it's hit/strikethrough) so I'm not sure what you want them to do? | |} ---- It's the RNG which makes it complex. Using in-game currency each slot re-roll produces a random result. So you have no way of knowing if you'll ever get the slots you want before you run out of plats. But of course, not to worry because the nice people at Carbine allow you to spend your RL cash to get exactly the slot you want without any RNG. So what's to be unhappy about eh? | |} ---- Transparency and clear documentation (or tooltips) is what's needed. I agree the old system was a bit confusing when one stat did different things for different classes. But the new system isn't as clear cut as you imagine. It's hard to know under the new system which secondary stat will benefit your class and role. Let's take Multi-Hit as an example. If my role is DPS do I stack Mutli-Hit? Or am I better off stacking Crit? Or perhaps Vigor? Or maybe I need Strikethrough? Or maybe I need some Lifesteal if I intend to solo? Or maybe try a balancing act between all of these? And how much is too much of any stat? What are the caps? And if I change my build will my stat priority change? Is this information available in-game or on the WS website, or do I need to rely on third-party guides? Is there anywhere in-game I can go to test out the effect of different stats for my class without having to go through the expensive process of rune'ing and re-rune'ing? Or do I just need to stare at spreadsheets until my eyes glaze over? But hey, they renamed the primary stats to "Assault Power" and "Support Power" so it's all good eh? | |} ---- I get it, you don't like feeling as though you're forced to spend money. Which you won't, because then you'll be able to reroll slots for less gold and you'll even be able to remove runes with gold instead of service tokens. You'll still be able to spend cash (or just omnibits) for tokens if you don't have or don't want to spend gold...but isn't that half the point of a cash shop? Convenience and cosmetics? I'm not trying to be apologist here but it's very hard when it seems like you've got the cash shop stuck in your craw it's hard not to. | |} ---- I'm on the fence about this one. I do totally agree about the old stats being colorful and interesting. I loves the icons. I loved how they were different from other game stats. I mean, Moxie as a stat? Tech? It was awesome. On the other hand, WS has a ton of character stat customization. Builds, amps, LAS, there's actually a lot to deal with when playing. Taking off one layer was probably good. Instead of having to deal with builds and figuring out what Moxie does for your class and spec, they just simplified it. Instead of different stats providing, say, attack power, now attack power just provides attack power. It's less convoluted. The options are all still there it seems, just less confusing. But, I do miss the names and I cons. I admit that. | |} ---- Any of those are good options as long as you aren't doing raids and the high end content. At which point, the idea of community research and sharing of information, creating spreadsheets, and arguing over the results is a part of the game that many people find fun. But that's really for min/max content. Until that point, I can't imagine any of these stats are going to matter that much, as long as you are taking something. | |} ---- ---- Funny thing is that they still have moxie and such when you try to restrict your searches in the auction house, go figure. :rolleyes: | |} ----